Boat Weights???

[dugout]

Am I missing something? I can't find any weights listed on the GT web site. In fact the only MM boat site that seems to have weights is Go-Devil?

Hmmmm.....

[Rick]

Hmmmmmmmmm what???

GT guide edition hulls are 415-550( 1644-1854)

Flotation MB edition hulls you can add 40-50 lbs depending on hull size.

These are on standard models without options.


You start adding boxes and everything else in their candy store and the weight will go up

The reason Go Devil lists their weights is because what ya see is what ya get. They do not and will not customize a hull. Their hulls are are all basically the same so listing a weight can be done. With GT, there are so many variables to consider with not just the length and width, but the interior layouts mostly. Every GT boat and their corresponding weights are different. Hard to list weights when you have so much variance.
Any other questions???

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hmmmmmmmmm what???

Thanks, I think.

Dang, I do have more questions; a lot more, but I'm half afraid of asking if I'm going to get jumped for asking the most obvious one! I thought this place was different from "other" forums?

Again, why aren't the weights on the web sites for the mud boats? I can't be the first person to ever ask this question? It seems like an important specification, to me. I appreciate the response but, in the case of GT, there are different lengths, widths, Guide Editions, MB Editions, Duck Skiffs, an SS, and hunt deck versions, right? The weights of the basic boats would be nice. I don't know about other folks but I would find it hard to buy a boat without a good idea what it will weigh.

[Rick]

Who jumped on you??

I answered you without any negative inference. Your looking for something that isn't there. You're right this forum is not about jumping on folks, but helping. I believe I did just that. btw, what does your "hmmmmmmm" infer to???

[ALMODUX]

Easy fellas...I think the wires just got crossed, not each other.:Banane38:

Mr. Ed,

I'll get some weight numbers for you. I don't think Kent likes to post them simply because very few ever order a standard hull form them, so the weights posted just wouldn't be accurate, like Rick says. I really think the hull you and I talked about could be built under 300# and possibly close to the #250 mark, but I don't build boats...I'll talk to Kent about it Tuesday and get back with you.

[Rick]

Obvious wire cross, Dug.

No harm, no foul. Bill will take good care of ya. He's good people.

[Gun Doc]

dugout,

You may find the GT boats a little heavier than some of the others. Those boys build a tough, tough boat. So, should you think it is a tad heavy, understand why. There isn't a lot of magic here . . . aluminum weighs the same for every builder. There is the necessity to put the weight in the right place to use it effectivly, and IMHO the GT boys are pretty good at it.

[dugout]

Rick,

Okay, I'll accept crossed wires. For the record, I use "hmmmm..." as strongly pondering, or "what is with that?".

Since GD has fixed models this makes sense. I'm just trying to make heads and tails out of different boats and how they run with different motors, Length vs. width, draft, and weight. Its all a big puzzle. It reminds me of when lead shot was banned and I had to figure out steel shot. I have lived on, worked, and been around the water all my life. I got a 12 foot Lonestar and a 5.5hp Johnson for my 11th birthday, so I have owned boats for 37 years. Mud Motors introduce a totally different set of rules to the game. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I honestly feel MM guys have forgotten more about boats then most OB guys will ever know, including me.

Bill;

Thank you for for the time and effort in helping sort out a boat and my actuator deal.

Ed-:tomato:

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Gun Doc

dugout,

You may find the GT boats a little heavier than some of the others. Those boys build a tough, tough boat. So, should you think it is a tad heavy, understand why. There isn't a lot of magic here . . . aluminum weighs the same for every builder. There is the necessity to put the weight in the right place to use it effectivly, and IMHO the GT boys are pretty good at it.

Thanks! I think this is something you wrote and has really cause me to think alot about a boat and my specific mission.

For the same area. i.e. length x width, length does you more good in several ways. Length is more efficient as a displacement hull, but as a planning hull as well. The same area will have the same displacement, but a long boat will "lever" the heavy back end up better when you start playing load games like moving this or that to the front. Length spans waves better. If you want bigger, almost always increase the length first. Too narrow is when it is too narrow to move around or is too narrow to be stable, as with a canoe. Of course, a bow fisherman may want more stability than someone else, and a timber runner may really want narrow, but in general think length first as you size up.

Thanks.

[Rick]

Dug,

WHat size motor you hangin on the back?? That plays a key role in deciding as well.

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Rick

Dug,

What size motor you hangin on the back?? That plays a key role in deciding as well.

That is the tough part. It's a 18hp Van Balanced Hyperdrive. There aren't many vocal folks running something this small and happy to get 20mph, almost empty, and alone. I have it on a 1448 riveted boat, now. It would probably be fine if I ran with a passenger or two but I run alone most of the time, trapping. I have way too much squat, draft too much, and getting on step is more of an "event" than I would prefer. I'm looking into something that is a good one man boat, okay two man boat, and marginal but workable with three. It needs to sit more level with my lard butt running at slow speeds and get on step without all the high bow gymnastics I go through now. I run protected tidal marsh.

[Gun Doc]

dugout,

You're welcome. I'm pretty good at explaining what I know, but Almodux, Rick, and Boat Dr. have TONS more experience, not to mention the GT boys themselves.

Another thing you might consider is how attached you are to your present motor. If you see a larger motor in your future, you might consider a hull for that motor as long as it isn't way too much for your current motor. In reality, this may prove difficult because I think most people tend to take a pretty big step, such as 18 to 35. Were that the case, then the only way my suggestion would work is if you bought something that was almost too much for the 18 and almost too little for the 35. In that case, you would change the character of the rig entirly, going from a slow/safe rig to haulin' butt with the same hull!

[Rick]

I'll say this about the GT hulls--They run flat!! Every GT hull I have been in runs flat on the water and jumps on plane as long as there is enough hp in the motor to do so. I run a 1744, which is pretty narrow. I ran a 25 longtail on it before the shorties and getting on pad was never an issue even with 3 guys a pooch and gear. 2 guys and it ran even better. Have you thought about a GT skiff for your motor?? 3 guys with an 18 is asking alot, but I'm sure it would move out 2 and gear without a problem. Just a thought.

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Rick

3 guys with an 18 is asking alot, but I'm sure it would move out 2 and gear without a problem. Just a thought.

Yea, discussing "performance" is a tough deal. Terms like "Good", "Okay", "workable", "slow", "fast", "big" and "small", all are relative and all mean different things to different people.
Things like width, length, and weight, in and of them selves, are TOTALLY unimportant to me. The boat needs to work and I need an open layout. long and thin, short and fat, heavy or light, it doesn't matter at all.

"Good one man boat", to me, means limited squat and gets on step gracefully with 12 gallons of fuel in the bow, battery aft, and my 260 pound, double chubby butt, running the motor.
Frankly, the 18 can push my 1448 too fast for me, which is a little over 22 mph, on the GPS, once I get on step. This would be a pig to someone else.
"Okay two man boat", to me, means, with another 200 plus pound-er in the forward section of the boat, I'm still level and balance at slower speeds. I may draft a little more but I can still get on step and run in the mid to high teens, speed wise.
My current rig does really well under these condition and meets all of these goals so I would call it a "good two man Boat", performance wise.
"Marginal but Workable three man boat", to me means I am still level and draft a little more. I am probably more of a displacement hull, at this point, and can forget about getting on step. I get whatever speed the little 18hp van can deliver which is probably in the low teens. My current rig does much better than this, and can even get on step sometimes, but the trade off is big...

If I ran with one or two passengers, most of the time, my current rig would be "fine". The problem is I run alone 85% of the time. I would much rather give up performance on the loaded side to gain a more workable and better behaving platform on the other end of the scale. The "perfect" boat, to me, would be a "good one man boat" by my definition, and still get on step with a two passenger load.

Gun Doc, If I change motors it would be to something in the 23 neighborhood. I really like the B&S Vanguard motors and would try to stay with them. I've been thrashing them a long time on hay lifts, manure spreaders, chippers, grass cutters, and such. I'm no speed demon so adding horse power would be for the torque and to extend the useful load range of any boat I get, within the design spec of the boat. Since a 23 Van would weigh about the same or even less, as a Sport, am I safe to assume this would not represent a problem with a well balanced boat?

Thanks Everyone!

[HaydenHunter]

I have rigged and run many Hypers in the 29 to 35 range...never smaller. I have, however, heard that the 23 is about the biggest bang for the buck and pound in the smaller end of the MB liine. I am just thinking that two to three guys in a boat pushed by a 14 is going to be a tough order. As they say, there is no replacement for displacement!

Have fun picking out your new boat.

[dugout]

Originally Posted by HaydenHunter

I have rigged and run many Hypers in the 29 to 35 range...never smaller. I have, however, heard that the 23 is about the biggest bang for the buck and pound in the smaller end of the MB liine. I am just thinking that two to three guys in a boat pushed by a 14 is going to be a tough order. As they say, there is no replacement for displacement!

Have fun picking out your new boat.

Its an 18, and it is currently pushing a 1448 "just fine" with a two/three man load, for me. The problem is when I'm alone, and more of a balance issue than anything else, I guess. Performance, to me, does not mean speed or load carrying ability. It's how the load is carried. I'm fully aware that my definition of performance differs from the common interpretation. This is what makes this tough.

[sandman7655]

MY RECOMMENDATION TO YOU is find a dealer with a couple of boats and go run your your motor on them because you have a different idea for different things that is the only way you will know.

[dugout]

Originally Posted by sandman7655

MY RECOMMENDATION TO YOU is find a dealer with a couple of boats and go run your your motor on them because you have a different idea for different things that is the only way you will know.

Thanks for the recommendation, Sandman. I don't have a stocking Gator Trax, Pro-Drive, Excel, GD, Beavertail, PhatbuoyZ, or any other type of mud boat dealer, within a days drive, that I'm aware of. I wish I could take my motor some place and try a couple boats, trust me! All I have to go on is my experience with it on the 1448 Jon it's on now. I am in touch with a couple folks running 18s and 23 hypers, who are currently getting "Crawfish" skiffs built. It will be interesting to see how they make out, as well. I'm working with Bill and he is checking some things out for me.

I'm asking questions and trying to learn enough to make a good decision. I have done my very best to provide as much information as possible. I appreciate everyone who has responded, too. I realise my idea of a perfect boat is a little different because I have "a different idea for different things" so that is why I'm asking lots of questions. Maybe someone else will benefit from some of this discussion, as well. I make part of my living with the boat so it is worth careful consideration. It takes a lot of fur and a lot of tough hours to pay for one of these rigs.

[sandman7655]

there is no perfect boat.you might have to make a trip to a dealer or builder and check out some stuff for yourself.good luck

[dugout]

Originally Posted by sandman7655

there is no perfect boat.you might have to make a trip to a dealer or builder and check out some stuff for yourself.good luck

Yea, I know and I have not ruled that out.

I'm not looking for a perfect boat. I am clearly willing to scrafice load carrying ability and speed beyond a minimum of getting on step, for empty one man performance, described in earlier posts, in a well built boat made for a ST mud motor.

Thanks!

[ALMODUX]

Here's what I think (from our phone discussion and your email):

16x36 Gatortrax Skiff, with a huntdeck and a gear change in your 18 Hyper to get maximum 'grunt' out of it vs speed, but keep all the maneuverability of the shorttail. This is 17' 6" overall, in the skiff. It's long enough it could plane three people, run level empty, and do 95% of what you're asking. It may be that we can explore the tapered chine and .100 gauge options with Kent to see about shaving some weight from this setup....otherwise, you could consider the 15' HD skiff and it might be tough to plane three folks with your motor. The goal seems to be a well balance boat that is optimized for planing with the motor you have and no more, as far as speed. What if you could run only 17 tops, but could manage 12 on plane with three guys out of that 18? I think that's a reasonable expectation with a skiff and a gear swap, but Kent will be able to tell me better.:banana:

[dugout]

Originally Posted by ALMODUX

Here's what I think (from our phone discussion and your email):

16x36 Gatortrax Skiff, with a huntdeck and a gear change in your 18 Hyper to get maximum 'grunt' out of it vs speed, but keep all the maneuverability of the shorttail. This is 17' 6" overall, in the skiff. It's long enough it could plane three people, run level empty, and do 95% of what you're asking. It may be that we can explore the tapered chine and .100 gauge options with Kent to see about shaving some weight from this setup....otherwise, you could consider the 15' HD skiff and it might be tough to plane three folks with your motor. The goal seems to be a well balance boat that is optimized for planing with the motor you have and no more, as far as speed. What if you could run only 17 tops, but could manage 12 on plane with three guys out of that 18? I think that's a reasonable expectation with a skiff and a gear swap, but Kent will be able to tell me better.

Oh yea! Now we are talking. You know exactly what I'm looking for. I would trade "grunt" for speed, any day. Losing the 5 mph of speed to gain manners is a fair trade. I never considered a gear change. This is probably why you make the big bucks.

Seriously, This is a good idea. You probably had this in your head all along, and before this discussion lost it's way. You're the Man! I'll wait to hear.:bananajump:

[Gun Doc]

My $.02, to be filtered through those with more experience. It seems to me this gentleman wants a balanced rig w/o having to have a 200 lb. buddy sitting up front. Seems to me that if you have a rig that runs as flat as it should with one, then as long as you add weight near the "center" you will draft more, but still have the balance. So, the trick is to get a big or long enough boat to behave well with one that will not overload the motor, and still have some capacity to carry the ocassional extra weight, albeit a bit slow by current expectations. I think a longish skiff, as Almodux proposes, sounds pretty good. Them Alabama boys gots some smarts!

[Can Killer]

The skiff sounds like a perfect idea. Having run lots of juniper skiffs in my day and working around the Chesapeake (same conditions) I'd have to say its a good choice. Lots of carrying room, stable, and can still take the 18 with a gear change.

Just my two cents.

[BoatDR]

Originally Posted by dugout

I don't have a stocking Gator Trax, Pro-Drive, Excel, GD, Beavertail, PhatbuoyZ, or any other type of mud boat dealer, within a days drive, that I'm aware of. I wish I could take my motor some place and try a couple boats, trust me!

Where is Delmarva?

Guess people are a bit spoiled down south, within a "days" drive I could visit any of about 25+ mudbuddy dealers, not to mention countless dealers for the other brands too.

[dugout]

Originally Posted by BoatDR

Where is Delmarva?

Guess people are a bit spoiled down south, within a "days" drive I could visit any of about 25+ mudbuddy dealers, not to mention countless dealers for the other brands too.

The Eastern Shore of Maryland. We are south of the Mason-Dixon line, but not by enough...! However, all our rifle ranges still face to the north in these parts... ;)

[ALMODUX]

Originally Posted by dugout

The Eastern Shore of Maryland. We are south of the Mason-Dixon line, but not by enough...! However, all our rifle ranges still face to the north in these parts... ;)

I bet they don't even have backstops, either.

[sandman7655]

i coulda sworn there was a dealer in maryland???????????

[Can Killer]

Bart Miller is the dealer rep in MD. If you want to ride a GT let me know. I'm on the western shore (Deale). We can arrange a test ride for you. I hunt the eastern shore all the time. Just let me know.

And don't let the yank fool you. The ranges don't face north. They face west to the city within the circles. Backstops optional. :Banane21:

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Can Killer

Bart Miller is the dealer rep in MD. If you want to ride a GT let me know. I'm on the western shore (Deale). We can arrange a test ride for you. I hunt the eastern shore all the time. Just let me know.

And don't let the yank fool you. The ranges don't face north. They face west to the city within the circles. Backstops optional. :Banane21:

First of all, I ain't no Yankee! Second we probably should have the ranges pointing west but it is the way it is, and this is a whole other discussion.:311boxing-thumb:

Thanks for the offer for a boat ride. I have no question as to the quality of the GT boats. The issue is replacing my 1448 with something better suited to me, with the 18hp Hyper, I already own.

I PM'ed with Bart Miller after I bought the motor. He is the NE regional Rep, right. Seems like a nice fellow. He is the one who confirmed there aren't any servicing dealers in the area. We never spoke about boats. He offered to help if he could. I don't see bugging a Rep over this stuff. I have called the Mud Buddy gang a couple times and Bill Moore is giving me as much support as I could ever expect. In fact I am extremely pleased with everyone involved with Mud Buddy, so far. I've bought some accessories mostly because I felt guilty for taking every ones time on the phone.

As you probably know, MMs and Mud rigs are not exactly common place in these parts.

What do have for a rig? Thanks!